Planning on taking out loans

Hi, I previously had written a pretty extensive post on my situation but something must be up with the scripts on this website because as soon as I hit submit, it didn't do anything.

Anyway, here it is in a nutshell:

I plan on taking out loans for a private college (Ringling college of art + design). Per semester the cost is $20,372.50 double that $40,745 a year. I got $9,895.50 in financial aid for this semester double that $19,791 a year (subsidized loan included). The total per semester owed is $10,477 double that $20,954 a year.

If costs stay the same (which they won't because some fees like the meal plan and matriculation fees will go away) the total cost for my four years will be $20,954 * 4 = $83,816 (not including subsidized loans).

My questions is: what should I do? I do not want to involve my parents at all so I guess that means PLUS loans as well as co-signing is out of the picture. Problem is I'm 17 as of now and won't be 18 until late August; too late to file loans.

So, what can I do? I would also like to know if you guys have anything I should look out for or rather, ask when taking out loans. Right now I got in my list of questions:

1. Can I make early payments without penalties?
2. How long is the grace period?

and...that's about it, I would definitely like to more about interest rates since I was reading up on it, but...it got confusing since it's not just basic simple interest formulas or compounding interest formulas, it's "prime-interest, -5%, no fees, accrued interest, and more jargon".

I'm just confused right now. This is a big deal, I don't mind paying, I just want to get the best rates, pay a reasonable amount a month that will not have me paying for the rest of my life, and...good customer service I guess.

Was looking into campusdoor's loans right now. trying to avoid sallie mae since I've read horrible things about them online, and also at edamerica. Thanks for any replies. Hopefully I'll start making calls monday to get things going for a loan.

Also, I got work-study (at least that's what my college's financial aid department told me) so that should help some as well.

Honestly? -- I would recommend a cheaper college, especially for the first two years (the Associates degree program). Community college should be a tenth of that or less. You can transfer back to your preferred college for your major (the Bachelor's Degree).

haha, yes honestly. actually, it makes no logical sense for me to go to Ringling, none whatsoever. Over at Florida International University I got a full ride plus maybe $3,000 that goes in my pocket. Same if I would've gone to FSU, but then I would need to pay for housing...so maybe just $1,000 in pocket money.

I can study any major I want that FIU offers, and it will be completely paid for, a dream come true! heck even my mom works there in maintenance. But...

I think I want to go to Ringling. The thing is I really won't need an aa if I do decide to be an animator. If I go to ringling it will be like doing my masters since I won't be doing a masters. It would just be an undergrad at ringling and hopefully get hired by a company (pixar hopefully, yeah I know how it sounds).

Heck, in the animation industry no one really cares where you graduated from, as long as you can do what they need. Ringling is the #1 for animation and ranked #4 in the world.

The more I write the more I realize how fantastical this all sounds, but...*sigh* the school is really good. Plus, it would do no good doing my aa first. It's a structured program so the best one can do is enter as a sophomore, and even then it's not recommended.

Bah, seems like I wasn't destined to be an animator. Everyone tells me that I should just stay and be an engineer or architect. I like architecture, and...it really fits with my current view on life...but I just don't know.

Heh....maybe follow my mom's advice "no todo se pude en esta vida" --> "not everything is possible in this life".

Plus, it would do no good doing my aa first. It's a structured program so the best one can do is enter as a sophomore, and even then it's not recommended."
I'm not sure Puck was saying that you had to get your AA first. She was just saying that you could get the bulk of your General Education classes out of the way at a cheaper school in the first year or two. You may want to find out what classes offered at FIU will transfer directly into your program at Ringling. For example; Sociology, Mathematics, etc. Take as many of the transferable classes that you can at the less expensive college and then make your transfer. By that time you will be over 18 and you will still walk away with parchment from the "better" college. Noone cares where you spent your first few years of school, your resume will say "Graduated from...".

Bah, seems like I wasn't destined to be an animator. Everyone tells me that I should just stay and be an engineer or architect. I like architecture, and...it really fits with my current view on life...but I just don't know.

Heh....maybe follow my mom's advice "no todo se pude en esta vida" --> "not everything is possible in this life".
The difference between you and your mom is that she may be old enough to believe it. Don't let it stop you from giving a go! There's current Pixar animators that were standing in very similar shoes years ago. I will say though, you have to trust and believe in your own talent. Like most art, creative animation is not a skill that is learned, it is a talent that is developed.

Heh, that's the thing.

Right now I'm living quite a meaningless life. I ponder life, I read books, hear lectures and try and think what I should be doing or better yet, what is "right". I just saw J.K. Rowling's lecture at Harvard and...she speaks of imagination and creativity, of the "Fringe Benefits of Failure", how much of it is true? how much of it is just romanticism and stays that way?

Everywhere I look to it seems as if FIU or FSU is the right way to go. If I look to my church, my priest would say "look to god" he will guide you. If I ask my guidance counselor she would say "you have to be realistic about your career choice, Ringling's a good school, but it's just not right for you at the moment. Maybe you can get your MFA at Ringling then transfer, you'll have credits to maybe skip a year, and have a money nest". my mom would say "ya quedate aqui, que vas hacer aya? a endeudarte? estas loco, quedate aqui mejor. agara tu dinerito, aqui tenes tu comida, tu casa, todo. que vas hacer aya?" --> "just stay here, what are you going to do over there? indebt yourself? you're crazy, stay here better. get you money, here you have your food, your house, everything. what are you going to do over there?"

yeah, *plays world's smallest violin* but...I don't know. To make matters worse (or better) Ringling sent my parents a book to read about the future of the job market. They can't read english, so I just decided to read it. Haven't finished it but, for the most part it addresses the "issue" of outsourcing and how white-collar jobs are not as needed as they were and of this movement from the "information age" to the "conceptual age", it's pretty well thought out so far, but the cynic in me says it's just a good piece of propaganda. However, it does make sense.

But...yeah, $85,000 in loans is horrible. When I even think about taking out loans my stomach knots and I just forget about it and do something else. Needless to say, I don't want to take out loans.

It seems though, that if I do end up going to Ringling I will have to. Which is why I cam here, in hopes that I could get some tips on what to look out for and what I should ask when choosing a lender. As well as any other type of help be it motivational, a past experience, or maybe even choosing an alternate career.

Thanks for the help though. I know a lot of people going to Ringling are taking out debts. The prospect of taking out a loan is not one that sits well with me though. But if I do choose to, I want to do it right.Thanks again.

Sigh.....

No one wants to kill your dreams.

The problem is, those of us without money, or without parents with money, have to make harder choices. I graduated high school in Tallahassee, but got accepted to Duke, with a very modest scholarship (not a full ride). Needless to say, I couldn't go to Duke, and I had to stay in Tallahassee (where I did my AA at TCC, then my Bachelors at FSU). I did my grad work in another state entirely, but by then I had a fairly established initial career and money in the bank to afford grad school.

It's harder when you're young, and don't have money. And your parents don't have money. It means you have to make the choices yourself.

http://www.ed.gov/offices/OSFAP/DirectLoan/RepayCalc/dlentry1.html
Run this loan calculator. As you can see, if you borrow only Stafford loans at $85,000, your payment under the regular (10 year repayment) plan is nearly $1000 a month, and at the extended (30 year) plan it's over $550. But you're not talking about borrowing $85,000 -- you're talking about borrowing $85,000 in PRIVATE loans PLUS subsidized Federal Stafford loans!!! What are you talking about -- Maybe $120,000 in loans?

Get the TOTAL fixed in your mind. The private loans will be hideous, and you will accrue interest all the time you are in school (which means by the time you're ready to start repayment, you might owe as much as $150,000!!!) -- the TOTAL of all your loans is mind-boggling. It's what people pay to go to medical school. And you're going to animation school? At least a doctor can get a job anywhere, while your field is rather narrow and limited.

Repayment of $150,000 would be over $1700 over 10 years, and nearly $1000 over 30 years.

I don't know you. But I strongly encourage you to be very realistic about these numbers. I have a Ph.D and I'm 40. I've been working professionally in my field for only 5 years, but I can tell you, I don't make enough money to pay back either $85,000 or $150,000. And it's not a matter of "I want to do other things with my money" -- in the worst case scenario of $1700 a month in payments, I wouldn't be able to afford anything else except food and a cell phone! Not rent, not a car payment, nor insurance, nor cable TV, etc. These are serious amounts of money. This is the kind of money that -- if you miscalculate and don't end up in a high paying animation field -- will cost you every other dream you ever had, such as home ownership, affording children, and might even cost you marriage (who wants to marry someone with sooo much debt that they cost their partner also the dream of children and/or homeownership??).

Ultimately, only YOU can figure out whether it's worth it. Maybe you are the next great Pixar talent -- okay, but what do animators make starting out? -- is it sufficient to cover those debts? -- does a degree from Ringling ensure you get better work than if you were just a talented artist with a Fine Arts degree from a state college?

You should take the Ringling brochure seriously. Even as propaganda, they are telling you that your job -- animation -- could be offshore'd. Anyone can draw, from any place on the planet, and email their drawings to their employers. Pixar, Disney, Whoever -- they don't HAVE to hire American animators.

You don't have to be entirely sensible -- my Dad wanted me to be a business major, and offered to pay my entire way if I would do that. I switched for two semesters and made straight Cs, because I hated it. I went back to English. Now, anyone will tell you -- as they told me -- that it was a foolish move. What can you do with a degree in English? they said. Well, they were right. But I was still one of the few who succeeded in the field, and got a job in the field, and now I'm a professor in English. Still, my modest student loans ($55k) hurt quite a bit, and make it difficult to afford some of the things in life I'd like to have (like nice furniture that isn't the stuff my 48 year old husband had in college!).

There are halfway points, though. Do the state colleges you are considering have fine arts degrees in drawing or computer animation, or whatever your field is? A Masters in Fine Arts is a terminal degree (no Ph.D), which means if you fail in animation, you could succeed in teaching at either the high school or college levels. An MFA could also mean a job in a gallery, or a museum.

Pricespector surmised that my recommending taking the AA elsewhere meant I was really urging that you take your core requirements in a cheaper environment. That's acceptable. But really, I was suggesting the entire AA, and now that I know for a fact that you're in Florida, I doubly recommend it, since I went through Florida's university system. While core requirement MIGHT in most cases be transferrable between universities, the AA degree (or AS, we're not prejudiced!) is AUTOMATICALLY accepted. The credit extends fully, with the possible exception of oddball electives (I think my one elective in "History of Jazz" was not accepted when I transferred to FSU). It means you start in the third year when you transfer to your preferred university, with few or no credits to make up.

As to your question about factual information -- I'm afraid that's going to be hard to come by. Here's the thing -- your estimation of having half the tuition per semester paid for already includes your best shot at loans, the Federally backed Stafford/Perkins loans. Any other loan is going to be substandard to that. And in fact, you're going to have to go to Private loans, and chances are that your parents will have to co-sign -- assuming even THEY qualify for such mind-boggling sums of money! Now you're spreading the pain of your education over your parents, and harming their dreams for many decades to come (because their co-signature means the full amount of your non-Federally backed loans will be on their credit until they are paid off). Think about it.

Good luck to you! I've been in your shoes. BTW, you don't mention scholarships. What are you doing to get them? The university isn't your only source for free scholarships. There are thousands and thousands of scholarships out there, not all of them depending on grades or athletic abilities. Some are given only to women, or blacks, or hispanics, or men, or people who can trace ancestry to a Revolutionary War soldier, or to a Civil War soldier, or to a survivor of the Alamo, etc. I got one scholarship because my dad worked for a major potato chip company!

Yeah, that's the thing I don't want to spread the pain to my parents. My dad works construction and my mom works maintenance at FIU. They both work tirelessly to pay off the house we live in and support my sister and I. But...I really don't see myself doing something else. Don't imagine myself staying here in Miami, being part of the daily routine, I want to do something else. I certainly do not want to co-sign with my parents, or involve them in anyway though, it's just not...right.

You're right though I have to be "realistic" and my job could indeed me shipped off overseas, heck "The Simpsons" ships of their tweening (animation in betweens that make up the 23 frames in the 24 to allow "fluid" motion, if done "on-twos" then 11 frames) to korea in bulk. Plus, it would be about $180,000 in loans at the end of my four years. Meaning payments of about $1,600 a month for 10 years. My salary would have to be about 50k a year for me to live in an apartment where rent is 900 a month. Which according to people at Ringling is what most people who do illustration start off with. Animation is a more respectable program so it should be a bit more (this is all hearsay though). I'm still not quite sure (it sounds very possible, however I would have to live very, very frugal for 10 years and maybe commute with a bike instead of a car. I sent an e-mail to my art teacher regarding this here's the reply:

Dear Mike, Think about this strategy for the long-term at Ringling: When you get to the junior or senior year, which is not far away, the Hollywood studios start scouting Ringling for hot students they can hire, sometimes before graduation. What you should look for is an employer that would help you pay off your student loans in return for a five-year commitment. This is done in a lot of companies. If you could get them to pay it off or reduce your debt by 2/3, that would be the way to go. The key is to use every moment at Ringling with that goal in mind. A cousin of an old friend of mine started working with LucasArts in the 80's and he has dome very well. He is the lead compositor for Lucas. I'll look at your blog and conceptart.org. You should get your print tomorrow. Took me awhile to get motivated to address all those envelopes. Take care,

This could indeed ruin all my other "dreams", and...haha, I know no one is trying to crush them, just being "realistic", but...maybe I can do this, or maybe I'm just in denial. Thanks for your reply though, I really really appreciate it (not just saying it because it's custom, really do, your other posts on other threads have been very informative). Puts things into perspective as brutally as getting my bill for Ringling did.

It just scares me when I read many of the posts on this board regarding homes being on liens (sp) social security being taken away, getting into "default", harassing calls, automatic pay deductions, bankruptcy, and more. All of which I want to avoid.

I have this weekend to think about it though, any other comments, anecdotes are appreciated. Oh, and...I am looking for scholarships, the thing is most of them are for careers in: computer science, medicine, and education. Haven't been doing too much intense googling though, will start tomorrow (today). Oh, and, yeah I'm hispanic, but the same guidelines apply; computer science, medicine, etc.

@pricepector,

can you elaborate on that pixar animator that was in my shoes?

@pricepector,

can you elaborate on that pixar animator that was in my shoes?
Yes, every one of them that was hired in the last five years!

Yes, every one of them that was hired in the last five years!

Pardon my skepticism, since...in the end the only who's affected is me, and really you have nothing to lose. However, that's quite a mouthful you just said.

Everyone of them in the last five years have had debt? Every? Heh...whether you're just pulling my chain or not, seems like getting a loan is proving to be difficult. Every form I've filled out reads an error that as a 17 year old, I cannot take out a loan.

Eh, thanks again everyone and...pricepector, again, that was quite a mouthful o.0 Eitherway, seems like this isn't going to happen, I have to be 18 for every loan I've tried to apply for so far. I won't be 18 until August 19th, far too late for any papers to be filed.

Yes, you can't get loans until you're 18 -- a minor can disclaim contracts. So, if you choose to go through with Ringling, you will be on your own the first semester (if not the first year).

If all you're finding are scholarships in particular fields, you are not looking in the right places. There are TONS of scholarships for minorities -- I went to University of Kansas on a minority scholarship (soy boricua). That one, all I had to do was ask for one from my department head, and he produced it. I got through my entire undergrad on Pell Grants and working full time.

The state of Florida used to offer its employees six hours per semester in free tuition at any state university. I believe they have since done away with that, but I understand that some employers (including universities themselves) still do that. My sister works for FSU, and gets some hours free each semester at FSU. I finished my Bachelors through the original State of Florida program, when I was working for Florida DNR (it's now DEP).

It stinks not being able to afford the college you want -- but that doesn't mean you can't afford college at all. You mentioned you had a free ride to another college -- that is awfully hard to ignore! Think about it.

You what sucks about being 17? No one wants to hire you during the summer because it's more convenient to hire another highschool grad who's 18. According to the government, when it came to that stimulus package, 17 is too old to get that extra money. Add the fact I can't take out loans, this really, really sucks.

Ugh, I've talked it over with some other people and they call it a "blessing in disguise", whether it is or not, I'm not liking it. For now though, it seems like I cannot take out a loan with anyone. I've called chase, backdoor, and wachovia. All said no. Gonna try other people, but, I'm sure I"ll receive the same answers.

Dunno, but I was told I got work study at Ringling, in addition, I can probably try to get a job in sarasota and maybe pay my freshman year off (or at least the first semester) with tuition pay. then get a loan. I talked to a Ringling freshman a couple of days ago and it seems like he's not going to return this year because he does not have the money, nor does he have the credit history. He payed off his first semester, he says, rather easily, but his second semester was hell to try to pay off.

Oh, and...haha, boricua? cool. Maybe you'll know this quote then, because it's what I'm afraid is going to happen to me, that, as my mom keeps telling me, I'm going to "quedar sin beatriz y sin retrato" ==> "end up with neither beatriz no her portrait" a quote which I think suits me as in the end, I feel I'm just going to end up un "frakasado" *sigh*

Thanks for the help guys. Reality sucks, and if I read the word "prime-interest rates" again, I'm going to barf. I was also considering credit unions...but they probably only do 18 year olds too :rolleyes:

Sorry for the double post, but...didn't think anyone would read an edited post.

Anyway, I have another "question" I hope I can get answered:

Right now, payment is due on July 16th and I have no way to get in. I managed a loan with Wells Fargo co-signing with my mom because I'm under 17 years old and have to credit history. So...this year is pretty much covered. However, I got bigger problems.

I started to think about subsequent years; sophomore, junior, senior. I started to wonder...who's going to co-sign? and will they be approved? I asked Wells Fargo and they said, the co-signer would need to be undergo the approval process again. Meaning, when they background check my mom, that $19,000 debt from my freshman year will show up under her name. My mom only makes $1,600 a year. If I (my mom) borrows $19,000 that's about a $300 a month debt, dti will be: 300/1,600= 18%. Which isn't that bad.

However, take my sophomore year now, then my junior, and senior...insane. In addition, the house I currently live in will be re-financed and will be put under my mom and dad's name instead of my dad and someone else who co-signed in order to get approval. Mortgage is about 1,531 a month, split in half it's 765. That plus the 300 of student loans my freshman year=1068. 1068/1600 = 66% dti, which is not good and is subject for getting denies for a loan.

So after paying my freshman year, and possibly sophomore, I will be up the creek without a paddle because no one wants to lend me one. So...I was wondering...is there anything I can do?

I will say though, I called Campusdoor (another lender) and they said it's odd that they would penalize that debt because it's deferred and therefore shouldn't play too much of a role in that I get approved again or not. Nonetheless, campusdoor told me, it would probably be possible to take out a loan with them, just by myself, if need be.

Any help is appreciated.

Seriously? -- you should take the free ride scholarship to the other university. You've already done the math, and conclude you cannot afford to pay for school beyond your sophomore year. In just two years, you will have crushing student loan debt, and not a single useful degree to show for it.

And, BTW, 18% interest ($19k over 10 years at 18% is $338/mo) is HIDEOUS!!! What the heck? Fed student loans are at about 6.5%, and private loans shouldn't be more than 10-11%. You took a loan at a predatory interest rate. Reading your previous messages, I was of the opinion that you were being really smart about this, but instead, you became desperate, and they saw you coming a mile away.

Your best best is to renounce that loan, give back every dime, and go to the free ride college you mentioned earlier.

But I imagine if you've gone this far, you're going to ignore me. So, here goes.

Once you're over 18, you can get loans without any co-signatures. Not at Wells Fargo, of course, because once they smell blood in the water (that is, your poor mother duped into co-signing!), they will never let you get another loan without that co-signature. You can get yourself deeply, deeply in debt, as many have, chasing a dream which might or might not pay off. As a cautionary tale, I give you my own sister who owes $75k in student loans on a Bachelor's in English. The only reason she's not in financial hell is because she decided to take her Masters in English, in an attempt both to find work that pays, and defer repayment on her loans. As another cautionary tale, I give you a coworker and her husband -- she owed $60k in loans on Ph.D in English (and she's working in that field) while he owes $90k in loans on a law degree (and he is practicing his field -- public defender ($33k a year)). Together, they owe $150k in student loan debt. As she recently cried to me, she will never own a house. They are working in their fields, but they will be paying off that crippling student loan debt until they are eligible for Social Security.

No, Ringling really is a good school. It truly is, it's not very much known to the general population since, let's face it...the general population isn't too cultured. I mean...if I mention Gnomon School of Visual Effects, or...Calarts or Art Center...many people will just group it with the likes of Devyr, ITT Tech, or Full Sail.

Also, no interest is not 18%, it's 9%. That 18% came out of the dti ratio my mom will have if I co-sign with her.

Umm...(I say this with a heavy heart) I will not be attending Ringling. It's simply not in the realm of possibilities for me. You know...it's funny...life that is. Think it was in April, there was this "Admitted Student Day" at Ringling. Not orientation, but...a sort of "tour" of Ringling. We rented a small car because our family car wouldn't make the 3hr drive ('94 Camry).

The car was pretty new, a red PT Cruiser, 2008 believe it was. like...4am, and I was driving down I-75 N. Everyone in the car was sleeping, my mom, sister, and a friend who came with me. I look at my rear-view mirror and notice two very bright lights, I immediately though it was the police, so I slowed down from what seemed to be 90mph.

It was too late though, I saw the flashing red lights, and everyone woke up as the trooper's lights flooded the PT Cruiser. I got a ticket of about $300. I had to pay that off with the money I was saving to pay the deposit for Ringling. In addition, I had to sell some stuff on ebay to get the other $100 since I only had $200 saved up.

Now I only had $100 for Ringling's deposit and needed an additional $250 to send in the deposit; I asked my mom to cover the difference.

I don't like to believe in fate, don't like to believe I have no control over my life, I don't like to think that everything in my life has been predetermined by a guy with a white beard or some sort of blob of energy.

But it seems since day one...this just wasn't in the stars for me. No, day one was not that speeding ticket, it was 9th grade. After telling my art teacher what I wanted to do with my life, what I wanted to be and my aspirations, she said: "You'll never be able to get into Ringling, much less Pixar".

Heh...well, at least I can say I tried to try. I could have maybe applied myself and looked for scholarships, but alas, I was an idiot. I got caught up with extended essays, internal assessments, watching anime, cartoons, movies, reading, playing video games that...I just forgot about looking for scholarships; I assumed they would just come to me I guess.

*sigh*

Well...if it was up to me, I would totally just have indebted myself, heh. But...now this is starting to involve my mom, my dad, my aunt, uncle, and possibly my sister. If I go through with this, I would never be able to hold my head up high and be proud of what I accomplished. No, I would not. Machiavelli's words are great in The Prince, but...in reality, they suck. The ends in this case will not justify the means, even if I do somehow end up at Pixar.

It's a shame my only posts have been in my own thread, so excuse me for that. Thank you to all who have helped. I'm still not quite sure what I'm going to do, but my future does not lie with Ringling.

i would also recommend you to go to a cheaper college. or take help from your parents. it is evident from the post that hey can afford it. so why miss out on chance of studying at a better college. this loan from your parents can be returned and you dont need any credit rankings or eligibility for that
vik

thank you for this discussion. i was also suffering from this problem. i would be really very helpful to all