View Full Version : Need help w/ whole life policy


blastAway
I posted part of my issue on another thread but wanted to keep it separate to avoid confusion. I’m trying to get confirmation from my insurance company that my policy isn’t messed up in some way. It’s happened before where they have dropped off about $75,000 of death benefit and later had to add it back. Currently they are basically not responding to any of my inquires either positively or negatively so any help from the group about what to specifically ask for will help.

Background:
Benefit $1.5MM
Premium $18,000 annual
Some riders on it that make my analysis complicated which is why I need help.

Questions:
1) For a straightforward policy where the dividend is taken in cash AND the dividend rate stays the same, is the $ amount of the dividend expected to increase or remain the same over the life of the policy?
2) So, with a policy where dividends by PUAs and there’s a $35,000 single premium PUA shouldn’t the dividend $ amount increase each year? Or a better question, even with a decrease in dividend rate, nearly 2% over 11 years, with these riders should the dividend $ amount remain the same as 11 years ago?
3) Since dividends are return of premium, would you expect one policy that has a much higher premium to return greater $ amount of dividend than another one. I know the actual calculations are complex but I'm just trying to find any sort of pattern to communicate a possible problem to the insurance company.

Policy Comparison:
We bought another policy at the same time (different company) and this one is behaving much more as expected. The death benefit and premium is much lower but the dividend $ amount has consistently increased over time, even with a drop in dividend rate. There’s no single premium PUA but the dividends go towards purchasing PUAs just as in the other policy. During the same 5 year period there was a drop in dividend rate but the $ amount of dividend still increased each year. In the first policy, the dividend $ amount went down.

I’m trying to get the insurance company to show me that the PUAs (or premium of said dividends) are being considered in subsequent dividend calculations. Like I said, the other policy seems to be doing this, so why doesn’t this one. Any input about what I should ask from the insurance company would be greatly appreciated. The previous illustration didn’t include “expected” dividends so I don’t know what was expected of the policy. Luckily the illustration from the 2nd policy did include that. I have asked the insurance company for a new illustration but I haven’t gotten anything. Pretty bad customer service but I think they are also confused. They say they understand what I’m saying but still have no answer for me.

Thanks everyone.

pochax
After reading your post a few times (to make sure i wasn't missing anything), i got the sense that you were asking the right questions namely:
1) From what do you calculate the dividends in this policy? PUA and DB? premiums?
2) Give an updated illustration (including expected dividends)

I think you hit it on the nail that their customer service is lacking here. This is why sometimes it pays to go with an insurance carrier that uses an agent that will be your point person so that they can get these answers for you. I can tell you from my own experience, my NWM agent and NYL agents are VERY responsive to email and phone calls (get back within 24 hours - even if they don't have the answer, they at least acknowledge they got your message and are working on it). My NWM agent gave me an updated illustration within 24-48 hours via a PDF in email. it was simple as that.

i only say this to let you know that it shouldn't be this hard to get the answers you are looking for. i can sympathize that this must be frustrating, but at this point, they need to fulfill your need as their customer to explain and understand the policy that you put your hardearned money into. sorry i didn't answer your question, but i do think you deserve to get your answers straight from the company from someone who can explain it clearly.

blastAway
Thanks for the information.
Sad to say the policy is "supposed" to be managed by our financial advisor who is falling very short of expectations. For the thousands of $$ he has gotten out of our various accounts (not just insurance other accounts) we are far far from happy.

That is why I'm hitting the insurance company up directly because he doesn't have the answers and has basically ignored things going on over a long period.

If I don't get an answer from the current representative I'm going to be filing a formal complaint/investigation with the insurance company. This is going on way to long without an appropriate response. If they can't explain and show how their policies are working then they should be ashamed of themselves.

manelobster
There is a non-profit insurance info site that I know of that has really great info on term vs. whole life insurance (http://www.theroundtable.com) as well as info on when you should get life ins., getting it for your kids, and anything else you might want to know.

blastAway
Just to let you all know where the saga of the horrible whole life policy is going:

Our financial advisor finally got off his butt and contacted the insurance company. He didn't get any answers either but does agree that the policy isn't doing what it's supposed to.

The only thing he recommended was changing to a new policy (actually he suggested diversifying to 2-3 policies). I can understand the reasoning but I'm a little nervous because it starts the payment/growth cycle all over again PLUS he gets more commissions for multiple policies now. I can't but think he might be doing this just to get more $$$

pricespector
If you find that it is truly a poor performing policy, I would recommend doing a 1035 to one of the big 3 mutuals; New York Life, Northwestern or Mass Mutual. There will be no need to diversify and you will undoubtedly get the best performance for your dollars.

I'm assuming that your advisor doesn't/can't represent one of these companies, or that would have been his recommendation as well.

blastAway
Actually he was recommending Ohio National (which is where one of our other policies is at) and Mass Mutual and Laffeyette.
Also doing a 1035 as you suggested.

So his recommendations do seem sound and hopefully we caught it soon enough. Also, just yesterday I FINALLY got some sort of a response from Canada Life about the policy. They didn't answer the fundamental question but I did get a new illustration and it's pretty ugly.
The CV will be about 25% off of projections at year 22.

It sounds like it's time to change.

Thanks everyone for the help.