Prenup to Protect Assets and Avoid Debt

I’ve been an Army officer for 15 year with no kids due to medical conditions. I have 2 rental properties - one in TX and one in GA. I’m buying my current residence in MO. I have an IRA, mutual funds, CDs, savings bonds, and checking and savings account. I own a 2000 SUV and a 1990 compact car and both are paid off. My estimated worth is $510,000. In 5 years, I can retire from the military and enjoy my much earned retirement check and medical insurance for the remainder of my life. I do value these much earned benefits. In my view the retirement and medical insurance are investments that I want to protect.

Now, I’ve been dating this man for about 15 months. He was released from on the Army on 30% disability. Anyway, he received his payment from the Army and spent all of his money on his apartment furniture and vehicles. On the vehicles, he did spend the money on necessary repairs, but he also bought rims, a high speed alarm system, new vehicle radios and other items that I felt weren’t necessary. He had a house on the West Coast and the house was occupied by an ex girl friend. She remained in the house for about two years with no cohabitation agreement or a lease. He was basically paying his apartment rent in MO and the mortgage on the West Coast. After meeting me in MO, we started dating and he started trying to get the ex-girl friend out of the house because he couldn’t continue to pay both his apartment rent and the West coast mortgage with the new civilian job. It has taken months to get the ex-girl friend out of the house. I estimate that this has cost him about $30,000. He had to borrow money from the bank to pay for the repairs on the West Coast house, so the seller would agree to buy the house. He also pays child support for his three children that he had with his ex wife. According to him, he has about $8,000 in back child support. He also bought a $14,000 vehicle using the equity that he thought was going to have in the house. Upon selling the house, he didn’t get enough money back to pay off this home equity line of credit, so yes he has this home equity line of credit to pay. A law firm has a $6700 judgment against him for breach of contract. He also has one credit card bill that I know of with a $5,000 balance. I’m sure he has other debts. He owns a motorcycle with trailer and SUV (all paid off). He also has an old car that’s taken apart in the local garage, but he’s still paying on it. I think he borrowed money and used the car as collateral. His auto insurance is $286 a month. I suspect that the number of vehicles covered and his previous motorcycle accident (motor cycle totaled and he was out of commission for a year) contributes to the high insurance payment. He has a home computer and constantly buys things from e-bay. The military is paying for him to go to school until he receives his bachelor degree. He has had financial problems since I met him. I thought things would improve when he received the money for disability, but he didn’t spend it wisely, so it’s all gone and he still has debt. He lives from pay check to pay check each month. A couple of days a week, I hear about his financial problems. At times, I get the feeling that he expects me to help him, but he made this situation. I try to advise him, but he won’t listen to me. I don’t understand why he needs a SUV, 2 cars (one of which is inoperable), and motorcycle and a trailer, but he lives pay check to pay check.

Now, when I move with the military, he says he won’t go unless we’re married. I guess I can’t blame him. But, I want a prenuptial agreement. I want to protect my assets to include requesting that he waive rights to my military retirement, Thrift Savings Plan, (military) the survivor benefit plan, and other assets in the event of a divorce. Also, I want him to be responsible for his debt. I tried to get him to get a credit report, so I could see it, but he said not right now. When we first met, he mentioned that he would sign a pre nup. I mentioned it recently, and he made a comment about what I’m going to put in the pre nup. He knows about my houses and how much I make as an Army Officer (major), so I don’t know why he asked that question. Unfortunately, I didn’t answer him. I was just amazed that he said that. Sometimes I get the feeling that he believes that I’m going to be the primary bread winner. Just yesterday he was telling me about a $16,000 car that I could buy. I told him that I didn’t want a car payment. I’m content with my two cars.

I guess you wonder why I stay. Well, I have a medical condition that he’s willing to deal with. I mentioned my problem to a man in the past and he left me. Also, I had a surgery in 1999 to correct infertility problems when I was married, but that didn’t work out. This year I just had a surgery to correct some problems again. Since I’m not married, the military won’t pay for IVF, so I found a civilian doctor to do IVF. Of course, I must pay the whole $10,000 by myself. I’ve always wanted a child. I’m 38 and I believe this to be my last opportunity to try. I plan to do the IVF in August.

Now, I do have questions about pre nups. We live in MO right now, but I will probably move to MS, LA, or GA next year. In what state should I get the pre nup? I know states have different rules. I want a pre nup that will be valid with my relocations in the military. I won’t know my new assignment for months. If the IVF does work, I’ll want to get married very quickly. The Army looks down on officers who have children but aren’t married. It’s all based on availability of assignments and at this time it’s too early for me to know my next assignment. Any additional info that you can give to assist me with protecting my assets in this process would be greatly appreciated. My friend also needs some counseling on his spending habits/debts. I believe he needs some disability insurance, in case he gets hurt again.

Reply from UK; Prenups are not legal in many countries outside USA. Therefore we have developed a much more sophisticated system using offshore trusts, I can supply details if required. I would drop your prospective partner like a hot potato. Sounds like a waste of space, you should not settle for second (?) best, this is your future we are talking about. If you feel this way about him now, what are you going to think in five years and more mindless financial transactions later- do you need the hassle? If you read your posting as an email from your best friend would you recommend she marry this loser?

Sister, I'm afraid this is much, MUCH more than a financial problem. Still, as a woman, I understand where you're coming from.

As to prenups, you get a prenup in the state you are residing in before you marry. For this, you need a lawyer to draw one up for you (BTW, he needs a SEPARATE lawyer to look at it for him, because him not having his own lawyer can invalidate the prenup anyway!). Bear in mind that in some cases, you might have no right to prevent him from getting some things (I'm guessing survivors benefits is one of them -- spouses are entitled, in almost all states, to a "spousal share" of 1/3 to 1/2 of the estate, and it's not common that a prenup erases that right).

If, after you marry, you move to a state that invalidates all or part of your prenup, then you get a post-nup -- assuming you can get him to sign it. That last part is pertinent, because it's painfully clear even from the limited information you provided that he has been lucky enough to find a woman in a hurry to settle down, a woman with baby-rabies and a tick-tocking womb, who can also act as a Sugar Momma, if only he can work you hard enough. And he appears to be working you. Whether or not you will give in is another matter. I'm sure you firmly believe that you can resist him, but will you be able to resist him in a few years, when it's "the father of your child" who might be put in jail for non-payment of child support? I kinda doubt it.

I really, REEEELY want you to seriously consider what kind of future you will have with a man like this. Even with a pre-nup, even with separate accounts, there's no way to COMPLETELY keep your financial lives disentangled. For example, will you share a home in future? -- share a deed, share a mortgage? (-- in some states, it doesn't matter whose name is on the house, you share it anyway!) Will his debts end up attached to that house as liens, thereby FORCING you to share his debt?

And since you want so badly to have a baby, what makes you think this man would be a good role model for your child? His financial irresponsibility, his inability to delay gratification, his self-centeredness -- what makes you think he would help you with a baby, be an equal partner, be a good role model, be a good husband? What will happen when you keep denying him a share in your fortune?

And what happens when you move to a state that invalidates your prenup, and you can't get him to sign another one? How will you feel about your husband then? How will you feel in that marriage, tied to him for life by a baby? Think about all this.

I don't know what your medical issue is, but no matter WHAT it is, there are wonderful men out there who are enlightened enough to love you in spite of it. This frog-in-prince-clothing is not the last man on earth, nor even the last man who can accept you and your issues.

I'm not saying potential partners should be financially equal in all ways. But they need to be equal in the BASICS at least -- the values and desires. You value financial security, delaying gratification, protecting your wealth. He values spending every dime he has, instant gratification, and finding a woman who will provide him the financial security he refuses to make for himself. The fact that he refuses to show you his credit report means he has much more to hide than he's willing to let you in on. And you want to bring a child into this miserable mismatch?

As to children and a haste to be married so you can have them -- remember, your IVF surgery may not take. You might marry this man, and still be unable to bear children. Don't use your ticking clock as a time bomb. There's always adoption; there's always meeting a man with children and becoming a stepmother; there's always choosing to live a child-free life and finding other outlets for your motherly urges (pet ownership, or maybe Big Brothers/Big Sisters, or Girl Scout Troop Leader, etc). The latter is me and my husband -- I'm 39, child-free by choice, and I teach at a university. We lavish our love on a beloved dog, on our charities and volunteer work, and on a plethora of nieces and nephews (in that order).

Not having children is not the most miserable thing that can happen to a person. Being in a marriage with a man who ruins you financially, a man who constantly bugs you to spend your money, a man who makes every day a battleground over your "wealth" and his "poverty", a man who ramps up the arguments by tossing in a few barbs about fairness, equality, and how the man is the head of the family, a man who is constantly after you to sign this (note to co-sign), sign that (refinance the house to absorb his personal debt), sign this other thing (a nice fat life insurance policy in his favor) -- that's misery.

You are an amazing, dynamic woman. You have spent nearly two decades in public service. You have amassed a nice nest egg, with ongoing revenue. You are a few short years from retirement, when you can choose to take on a second career, or rest on your laurels. You have done amazing things with your life. I don't care what this medical condition is, and I don't care about your inability to have children -- these things don't define you, either as a woman, or as a human being. It saddens me that you seem to think they do, and think that this man is your last chance.

Well said Puck...I was waiting for you. I had you in mind the second I read the OP.

Pre-nups are bad news. If you partner can not trust you then there are some other issues that need to me addressed.

Pre-nups are bad news. If you partner can not trust you then there are some other issues that need to me addressed.

In this issue, I think the prenup is masking a larger issue.

But I don't believe prenups are bad news in general. DH and I signed one when we married. He had significantly more assets than I did. We did, however, put in a "kill" clause -- the prenup expired not too long ago, based on the length of our marriage. It was a way for him to protect his assets from divorce, and it was my way of assuring him I wasn't after him for his money (which is funny, because I now earn more!). The kill clause was the one thing I insisted on, because I refused to be held captive to his fear for long -- he had to learn to trust me, and he had to get over what his first wife did to him in the divorce. And he did, on both counts.

Prenups have their place. No sense in knocking the whole thing. Prenups are not about love, but are about addressing the business side of a marriage.

I don't think pre-nups are always a bad idea. My first husband wanted one because he anticipated inheriting a substantial amount. I told him I'd sign one if it were reasonable (and reviewed by a lawyer) but I would have wanted something like Puck's "kill" provision that wouldn't leave me with nothing after 10 years of marriage and 3 kids. He never came up with one and the irony is that he was a spendthrift and was unemployed for the last 5 years we were married. The inheritance pretty much got dissipated. I think pre-nups make a lot of sense for second marriages, although my husband and I don't have one.

I agree that the OP had problems in that relationship that a pre-nup wouldn't solve (the guy sounds like he's related to my Ex). I sure hope she didn't marry him.