Do You Pay for college for Your kids and ors not and why?

If you have the means I would like to see how many pay for college for their kids and who does not(or paying partially) and why?

My friends and I mostly had to pay for college on our own, unless scholarships were involved. I do not have children of my own yet, but I wanted to see what people see as prudent.

Nagel
http://finance.webaplex.com

I do not have kids, and have no intention of having any.

My husband had his way paid by his parents. I had to pay my own way, via scholarships, cash, and when I entered graduate school, student loans.

I am currently a teacher at university.

Now that you have my resume, here's my answer -- I do not believe that most middle class parents should pay for college, unless writing a check for tuition is not painful in any way (or if saving in an account is not painful in any way), AND one's retirement is secure.

Here's why:

1 -- As a professor, I see a clear difference in the performance of students whose parents are paying their way, and students who are having to depend on performance-based scholarships (the ones where receiving money depends on one's grades). Generally speaking, students whose parents pay their way simply do not value their educations as much. These are the ones who feel they have a right to enjoy "college life" -- that is, drinking, partying, experimenting with drugs and sex, etc. After all, there are no consequences to living a sorry life, since Daddy's writing the checks, regardless.

But students who have to earn their own way, whether through scholarships, student loans, and/or work, tend to value their educations more. They understand how much each missed class costs, how many days of study time is missed due to a single hangover, how a pregnancy at this time can devastate them. They are the ones who come to my office for extra help, or will consult me for clarification on a grade. Those students whose parents pay their way don't come to my office, don't try to better themselves, and don't try to understand why they got the grades they got (again, GENERALLY speaking).

2 -- I see too many middle-class families struggling to pay for college, or struggling to save for a child's educational fund, often to the detriment of their own financial well being. One parent actually told me their car was repossessed, but that was okay, because Bratleigh got to go to college. I hear about other parents who haven't saved toward retirement, feeling that saving for college was much more important. Society's mindset on this is really screwed up -- since when did a $40,000 goodbye gift to a kid (who will likely move back in anyway, because they majored in "comparative religions") constitute an act of sanity, for a working-class or middle-class family? Sheesh, it makes the gift-of-car-at-graduation pale in comparison.

3 -- I've also seen too many students who rely on the idea of a college fund, and refuse to excel at their studies. I was almost one of these. I had excellent grades anyway -- my parents instilled excellence -- but one day, when I was 16, I asked my parents how much they had saved for my college (after all, that's "to be expected" right?). They literally laughed in my face. Had I been 16, and a slacker, depending on my parents putting me through college, I wouldn't have had time to bring up my grades, and earn scholarships. So, I say that even if a parent can afford college, they should NOT tell their child that there's money for college. They should encourage the child to excel, to get scholarships, and then use any college fund to merely make up the difference (and what a nice surprise that will be, when you get to tell a studious and industrious child that you can afford to send them to Great State University, after all!).

4 -- There are literally BILLIONS of dollars in unused scholarships every year. This is because people who have their college paid for by Daddy and Mommy don't bother trying to make those dollars stretch by getting scholarships. What a waste! That's free money, not being used, because they are used to the idea of a free ride! Why bother working for a scholarships -- why bother writing an essay, or doing a project -- when it's so much easier to pump Daddy's checkbook?

So, I'd say that if you can write a check for either the fund or the tuition, without breaking a sweat, then you should absolutely consider paying for your child's college. If you can't, you need to revisit the plan.

I disagree. But this is not based upon your perceptions because you obviously see many more students in the university than I. Your framework of belief though is built upon what you perceive about students and the effort they put forth. As a teacher you see students at one point in time gathered to accomplish a goal a class or major.
I have helped to pay for 3 of my children to attend college. I am middle class and as such was elgible for very few loans and since my children weren't in the top of their class scholarships were not available despite your belief. My kids all max'd out their college loans avaialble to students and the rest I used my home equity without having an adequate retirement plan. I worked 3 jobs, my wife worked 3 jobs in our belief that we valued education and prioritized the value of a quality educational experience. Two of my children went to state colleges, still pricey and one went to a private, very pricey but we made it work so that they could have a good experience and that we could meet our payments to help them. The more that I, my wife, or my kids worked the less aid I and they recieved, so that hard work was not rewarded in the college financial aid process. avery frustrating experience I might add!
I have friends who believe as you do and their kids did not accomplish the same financial gains as did my kids, personal satisfaction is a tough one to measure so I will stick with financial gains. Yes my kids I'm sure goofed around but managed to put forth a successful effort, graduated and became employed in good jobs, that they would not have gotten had we not helped them. they have since all gone on for their masters degree and paid on their own.
My wife is a teacher, for head start and I am a public school teacher and we have always had to work 2 or 3 jobs. I am not complaining because sending our kids to college was a priority value for us. My retirement is important and will become a reality in several years but planning for my retirement does not bring me the intrinsic satisfaction that I get from seeing the success that my children are experiencing from my help.
My apologies for perhaps not being more clear about my feelings but this is a very emotional topic and one that would not change with what we did regardless of your challenges to my logic, its about personal values and not financial numbers.
Those kids that you had in your class, do you really know their motivations? Yes I'm sure that some do goof off but many react to you as well and to your teaching style. I have done counseling as well and when you think you understand the dynamics of a person, they can bring a whole new light to a discussion and what you thought was accurate becomes somewhat grey now. What you thought was their motivation turns out to be something very different.
So I am not so quick to judge anymore and try to allow each person to develop in their own way which may not be our way. And believe me, at times I always have the right answer (haha Joke)
If its your son or daughter I believe you try to do as much as you can to help them to get a head start in this tough life. Living at home as well for a reasonable time , and not for numerous years but time to build up a savings to afford a place to live and to start their life.
You can disagree and for you..... be absolutely right!
I'm just relating to your question about what has been right for us!
Happy teaching! and be slow to judge!
Thanks for asking the question.

My parents put all 5 of us through college- state schools, but they paid it all other than what we made at summer jobs. Two have advanced degrees (sister is a doctor, brother an MBA, both paid fthemselves or the advanced education). All of us got good grades and are happily working in our chosen professions and I can easily guess that our combined income exceeds $1 million per year. So, yes, we valued our educations and I get a bit hot under the collar when people hint that you value your education less if someone else paid for it. (Not you, Puck- I know you noted there are exceptions.)

Fast forward to Beloved Only Son- I paid for his education because I could and because that's what my parents did for me. He got very involved with a chuch on campus to the extent that he really didn't give the academics the attention they deserved. He's just informed me (huh? 2 months before his supposed graduation?) that he needs 6 more credits so will have to take summer school classes. Frankly, I don't know what would have happened if we'd made him face reality by funding his own education. But my siblings have kids in college they're paying for who are very good students. One paid his own way for his MBA- said his parents had done enough. He's now got a very good job with Ernst & Young.

But my conscience is clear. I read the horror stores on creditboards.com from people who are buried under student loan debts (not dischargeable under bankruptcy so they're a life sentence) and I know my son won't be one of them.

Those kids that you had in your class, do you really know their motivations? Yes I'm sure that some do goof off but many react to you as well and to your teaching style. I have done counseling as well and when you think you understand the dynamics of a person, they can bring a whole new light to a discussion and what you thought was accurate becomes somewhat grey now. What you thought was their motivation turns out to be something very different.

This is a weakness in the college system, which is why I'm part of a cohort. Three or four or us in this cohort share the same freshman and sophomore level students, and we gather together to discuss them, their work, and their prospects (it's a leadership cohort, so these kids are also among the best of the best). Also, you need to be aware that times have changed, and these kids let it all hang out on places like MySpace and Facebook. I'm pretty sure I know their motivations, or that I'm closer to knowing them more than professors did even five years ago. For example, the student who begged me to accept a late paper on the pretext of having a tornado hit his house? -- we did have tornados in that area, but according to his own entry on MySpace, he was partying with friends and taking bets that I would accept his paper.

I've also taught at every level in academia (except Ivy League), from major research university, to smaller universities, to two year colleges, to private/religious colleges. So I can modify my statement by saying, also, that students who attend the highest tiers of schools tend to fall more closely into the paradigm I mentioned previously. I currently teach at a very well respected smaller four-year university -- incoming freshmen usually fall into two tiers (local people whose goal was always to attend this University, or people from the Atlanta area who weren't accepted as freshmen for a slot at UGA or G-Tech). Some of the most motivated students I ever had, whether parental-paid or self-earned, were at two-year colleges. A student attends a two year college over a four-year university for a variety of reasons -- (1) they cannot afford a four-year, (2) they want to stay local so they can work and study (or be married/have children and study), (3) they are cost conscious and intend to save money at this level and save for the greater expenses of their major/graduate school, (4) they are returning after many years in the work force and want to better their opportunities. All in all, it means those students are MOTIVATED to do well, for a variety of reasons. They are also less likely to indulge in study-killing habits like "college life", which makes a big difference in success.

Student motivations vary, and I think how a child is raised means a whole lot. Had my parents been able to pay my way, I wouldn't have laid down on the job -- my Dad begged on the streets of San Juan, and eventually ran in a street gang, before he turned his life around (with the help of the military), and my mother was bitter about her own upbringing (where college was a waste for girls, since they will marry and have kids). I would have recognized that free ride as a precious gift (it was still precious, even though I had to pay my own way). Parents who offer that free ride, and make it clear that it's a precious gift, boost their kids in amazing ways. Sadly, too many of my current students don't recognize the preciousness of such an expensive gift (especially at my school, which does NOT make Kiplinger's list, because of its high cost), and are wasting their days in alcohol, drugs, and other unproductive ways.

The cohort system, I don't think is typical. The specialized attention that you give your students is what I would like to believe exists out there in college land but in the state college system I didn't recognize that they had such a caring attitude about their students. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that your cohort system would ever be a valued factor in the top "100 schools" list and that it would be given the high degree of value that such a support system would offer to students and for their parents comfort that there is someone who cares. Without my fiancial help my kids could not have afforded to get to a school such as yours that offers such a wonderful support system to its students. That type of school would be worth busting my hump for!!! There is a degree of appreciation that has to exist by students that parents are laboring hard to send them to school. Without the students recognition of this factor then I agree with you that school becomes an entitlement and a place where fun is a priority and an education becomes secondary. It sounds like Puck and Athena are very proud of their parents and perhaps had a lasting influence upon them. As am I, where my dad grew up in Italy and then came to America alone and worked in factories all his life. But to see how hard he worked and how he saved for his kids always made me proud. In some colleges that I attended, these values of hard work were not always held in high esteem as compared to whether you were from money or that if your parents were Dr's.
Students motivations do vary and what will turn a student around to care and give forth a sincere effort is the challenge. I have counseled many disabled people and there to is a range of motivated people to people who play the system, comparable to the attitudes of the college students I would imagine. I think what I said about not judging comes from my experience working with them and never knowing who is up to the challenge of overcoming their hanidicaps. You approach everyone as having the potential to achieve and yet many do not, perhaps because of my deficiences as a helper , society's lack of supports or perhaps just because of their own deficiences. I too feel badly when you see parents who give up everything to provide for their kids and the kids don't value their parents sacrifice. Where does it go wrong? What part of parenting is missing, values, hard work lack of love... I don't pretend to know.
The cohort system and what you personally bring is precious. Its something I would sacrifice for to be able to send my kids to such a school. Being a number in a school is the cold reality in many places and each students reaction will vary to the treatment they must thrive under.
But without me helping to pay for college your cohort system is probably out of reach for my deserving children.
Thanks again Nagel for asking "what people think is prudent" but not sure what people think is really at the heart of the answer!

Puck-

some things don't change! I went to college in 1971-75, ablaze with feminism and determined to get an education that would get me into a good career. I couldn't believe what I saw around me in the dorm- mostly women who were there because that's what you did after high school if you were upper middle-class and it was a good place to find a husband or to get a teaching degree to keep you warm till you DID find one if-heaven forbid- you graduated without that diamond twinkling on your left hand. I didn't see serious misbehavior- no excessive drinking and no drugs other than the occasional whiff of pot- I just didn't see a curiosity or a passion for learning. I'm not thrilled with my son's late graduation but one thing I'll say for him is that he loves what he studies (Math, like Mom).

It's really a waste of resources to see kids who don't belong in college and are there on someone else's dime.

It's really a waste of resources to see kids who don't belong in college and are there on someone else's dime.

Indeed. Unfortunately, the Bachelors Degree is so devalued. It really is nothing more than an entry level degree, about what the High School Diploma was 30 years ago. To get a premium salary, you need to go to graduate school. Yet, we keep churning out those Bachelors degree holders. It almost doesn't matter what you major in, for all my slap at "comparative religions", because for most fields, you still need graduate school to make more than an entry level salary.

A lot of parents are surprised to learn that the "MRS" degree is making a resurgence, particularly at the Ivy leagues. I know I was, and still am, surprised to hear it!

A lot of parents are surprised to learn that the "MRS" degree is making a resurgence, particularly at the Ivy leagues. I know I was, and still am, surprised to hear it!

Another actuary I know is married to a doctor. She decided to be a stay-at-home Mom and now they're paying student loans out of his salary! I REALLY hope my son doesn't marry someone with a lot of student loans who does that. Not my business, I know, and it's more important that he marry someone nice, loving, and healthy enough to give me grandchildren (exactly NINE months after the wedding!) but I think if you're going to take loans out to get an education you should at least make enough money to pay them off.